Phrygian-Sabazios-Sabasis-Turkic-Savas

Hand of Sabazios (by wiki)

 

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Wilhelm Tomaschek - Sabazios - Die Alten Thraker - The Ancient Thracian

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Tomaschek writes about a Phrygian / Thracian deity Sabazios. He is always on horse back.

It is not unimportant. Because as a warrior it is easy to depict somebody on a horse and it is never ambiguous.

Savas is a very old Turkic word that was derived from sav/sab meaning "word". In Old Turkic it mens the war. 

 

There is an other interesting word there in the text above Αθύ παρος (athi paros), a temple name, and if we would translate it to Turkish it would mean "he who has a horse" and SAbazios gets his name from that temple: Ati Parinos. 

About Αθύ παρος I can't find any other information in www.

Isn't it very interesting?

Uzunbacak Adem 

Thracian-deity-Kotys-Turkic-Koduz-Kotuz

Koduz - Turkic Runes (From Tonyukuk Stone)

 

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Kotys (Ancient Greek: Κότυς Kótys) versus Turkic Kotuz

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Kotys Antik Yunanca: Κότυς Kótys, adının kökeni bilinmeyen bir Trakya tanrıçasıdır.

Wiki'ye göre:

"Kotys adının, Eski İskandinav Höðr "savaş, katliam"a benzer şekilde "savaş, katliam" anlamına geldiğine inanılıyor."

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Başka bir teklifim var!

Kadın veya dul anlamına gelen Eski Türkçe Koduz/Kotuz'a bakın.

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ENGLISH VERSION

Kotys Ancient Greek: Κότυς Kótys is a Thracian goddess with an unknown etymology.

Acc. to wiki:

"The name Kotys is believed to have meant "war, slaughter", akin to Old Norse Höðr "war, slaughter"."

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I have an other proposal!

Look at Old Turkic Koduz/Kotuz meaning woman or widow.

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I give a whole word and not an reconstructed stem.

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Phrygian-word-oroka-Turkic-uruk-urug

 

Phrygian word οροκα=oroka (progeny, offspring) Link: Phrygian Oroka

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Tatilimin son gününde www'de boş gezerken bakın ne buldum:

Frigce οροκα = oroka Yukarıdaki ilk görselde anlamı progeny (oğul) olarak geçerken, 

ikincisinde tam emin değil yazan. Soru işareti koymuş ve obscure (bilemicem) demiş.

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Phrygian οροκα Oroka meaning offspring? Link: Phrygian oroka - offspring

Oysa οροκα, Türkçe urug/uruk (torun,soy) ile 1:1 uyumludur.

Bu da mı rastlantı?

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English version:

On the last day of my holiday, look what I found while surfing the web:

Phrygian οροκα = oroka

In the first image above, the meaning is progeny (son), surely ,

The second author is not entirely sure. He said the meaning with a question mark and added "obscure" (I don't know).

However, οροκα is 1:1 compatible with Turkish urug/uruk (children, generation).

Coincidence?

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Thracian-skalme-sword-Turkic-kilic

 

Wilhelm Tomaschek - Die Alten Thraker - Skalme Skelis Skellis Skilas - sword

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Tomaschek writes a Thracian word σχάλμη / SKALME 

It means knife or/and sword.

He adds names of Thracian origin like Skelis, Skellis, Skilas. An at the end he writes the Kurdish word Kalme/Kalma, meaning sword. 

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Link: Kurdish Kalme for Sword

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I looked at the words Skilas, Skellis, Skelis and thought immediately of Turkic kılıç, meaning sword.

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From Proto-Altaic stem: *­kằle: knife, to cut.

OR

kıl-: to do, to make. 

Both possible, I would say.

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If Tomaschek says Kurdish Kalme (for Sword, see 2nd pic)  is possible, without disturbing S at the beginning (S-Mobile?), I could say Turkic kılıç would be possible, too.

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TURKISH VERSION:

Tomaschek Trakça bir kelime yazıyor σχάλμη / SKALME

Bıçak ve/veya kılıç anlamına gelir, diyor.

Skelis, Skellis, Skilas gibi Trak kökenli isimleri ekler yanlarına. Sonunda, kılıç anlamına gelen Kürtçe Kalme/Kalma kelimesini yazar. (2. görsel).

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Skilas, Skellis, Skelis kelimelerine bakınca ve hemen Türkçe kılıç geldi aklıma.

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Proto-Altay kökünden: *kằle: bıçak, kesmek için. (3. görsel)

VEYA

kıl-: yapmak, yapmak.(4. görsel)

İkisi de mümkün diyebilirim.

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Tomaschek başta S'yi umursamadan, Kürtçe kalme (Kılıç için bkz. 2. resim) Trakça Skalme'ye olur derse, Türk kılıcı da olur diyebilirim. Bu bastaki S-Mobile denilen Hint-Avrupa dil özelliği olabilir.

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Update 8.2.2024:

Jelme (Yelme), Proto-Türkçe'de bıçak ağzı / kılıcın üst kısmı anlamına gelir. Trakça Skalme ile de bir paraleliği olabilir!

Jelme (Yelme) means in Proto-Turkic a blade / upper part of a sabres. There could be a parallel to Thracian Skalme, too!

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Comparison-LinearA-versus-Turkic-Runes

 

My comparison of Linear A versus Turkic Runes

There are many similarities between LinearA and Turkic Runes. 

Linear A is older than Turkic officially but was there any movement from the west to the east?(Mediterranean region to  Central Asia)

When was the junction?

Who, whom?

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Benim Linear A / LinearA ve Türk Runlari karsilastirmam. 

Çok benzer işaret var.

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Thracian-instrument-magadis-Turkic-baglama

 

μάγαδις - Magadis - a string instrument 

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Wilhelm Tomaschek Die Alten Thraker (Antik Traklar) adlı kitabında μάγαδις / magadis adı verilen telli bir çalgıdan bahseder. Bu çalgıyı bulan Magdis adında Trakyalı bir adam. (Kantharos gibi bir Trak çalgısıdır).

20 teli vardır ve bu teller μαγάς (dışbükey sırt) üzerine gerilir. Ayrıca şöyle yazar: Sanatsal olarak birleştirmek anlamına gelen Frigce ma(n)g köküne sahiptir. Tamam. Şimdiye kadar, çok iyi.

Bir de şuraya bakalım: 

Türklerde bağlama denilen telli bir çalgı vardır. Bağla- (Eski Türkce bagla-) kökünden türemiştir. İpleri bir gerip bir yere bağlamak gerekir. Bence o Trak çalgısının da kökü bu Türkçe kök olabilir. 

> bag ~ mag

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bağlama - baglama

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English Version:

Wilhelm Tomaschek writes in his Book Die Alten Thraker (The Ancient Thracian) about an instrument with strings called μάγαδις / magadis. There is a Thracian man named Magdis as the founder of this instrument. It is a Thracian instrument like Kantharos. It has 20 strings and these strings are stretched on μαγάς (a convex ridge).  He writes further: It has the Phrygian root ma(n)g, meaning to join artistically. Ok. So far so good.

The Turks have a string instrument called bağlama. It derives from bağla- = to tie, to bind,  to fasten, to bundle. You must "stretch" to tie the strings somewhere. I think it could be the root for that Thracian instrument, too. 

Bag ~ mag

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Dacian-Komitai-Komite-young-Aristocrats-Turkic-komit

 

χομήται - Khomite - meaning Capillati in Latin > Young Aristocrats

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Wilhelm Tomaschek'in Die Alten Thraker (Antik Trakyalılar) adlı kitabında ilginç bir sözcük vardır.

χομήται = Khomitai = Khomite, (Daklarda) alt rütbeli soylular.

(astsubaylar)

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Bu Trak sözcüğünün etimolojisi için Tomaschek'in bir cevabı yok. Prusya'dan ya da Slavca'dan gelen 2 önermeden ümidini kesiyor...

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Benimse bir önerim var:

Eski Türkçe komit- kökü vardır: heyecan ve coşku vermek.

Modern Türkçe KOMUTAN sözcüğü buradan doğmuştur. Tamam KOMUTAN çok yeni bir kelime ama arkasındaki anlam muhtemelen aynı. Trak boy reislerinin oğulları, heyecan ve şevk vererek orduyu hazırlamak için bu işlevi/görevi alıyor olabilirdi.

Teklifimin kesinlikle absürt olmadığını düşünüyorum.

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There is an interesting word in Wilhelm Tomaschek's book Die Alten Thraker (The Ancient Thracians)

χομήται = Khomitai = Khomite, meaning (Dacian) nobles of lower rank. 

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He has no answer for the etymology of this Thracian word. He despairs of 2 propositions from Prussian or Slavic...

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I do have a proposal:

There is an Old Turkic stem komıt-: to give excitement and enthusiasm.

Modern Turkic word KOMUTAN (Commander) was born out of that. Ok KOMUTAN is a very new word but the sense behind it is probably the same. The sons of the clan chieftains could have this function/mission to prepare the army by giving excitement and enthusiasm.

I think my proposal is definitely not far fetched.  

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Four-Thracian-names-and-their-possible-Turkic-etymologies

In his article 

writes Doganci 4 Thracian names that I would check out! Link: 4 Thracian names

These are:

Diliporis, Bukaporis, Auloukentos and Kamoles. 

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Diliporis: In this name we see Dili-poris. (why did I cut the name like that? Answer: The second name has a similar form Buka-poris). Dili-bar (bar means to exist, "there is") 

= por (Chuv.)= Literally: He who has a tongue. 

Could mean "he who can speak well".

(Or Dilli-pars? meaning a leopard with a tongue?)

Or better Tülü-Pars: Hairy leopard?

All possible and compatible with the Turkic languages.

Bukaporis: Buka-bar: means "he has bulls" or like above Buka-pars = Bull-leopard?

Yes, bull-leopard could seem a little bit strange but there are many Bars (Leopard) names in Turkish history like Aybars=Moon leopard or Baybars=rich leopard. 

Auloukentos: Aulou sounds like Ulu: the great one, the old one, the mature one or oğul (read it like owoull) and Kenti/Kentü means himself. We take the first option and reconstruct the name as: Ulu-kentü meaning the great one, a respectable one (he himself is a great one).

Kamelos is easier to reconstruct. Kamlı could mean he who has a shaman.

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He write many other Thracian names down:

The List: 

Perobres, Zielas, Biobres, Lala, Skopes, Moukaporis, Dilliporis, Mokazis, Moukazes, Moukazis, Zielas, Dada, Doidalses...

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Per in Perobras could be bir (=one). (obur means "gorumand". 

Mukaporis could be a variant of Bukaporis. 

Mokazis, Moukazes, Moukazis could be a variant of Buka (see above) or Boğaz (meaning literally the neck, throat but could mean "gourmand".

 

Doydu means in Yakut dialect of Turkic the home, the homeland. Doidalses could have this stem in it. 

Zielas could have çil/e in it. 

Çil means freckle, sun spot. It is not beautiful. It could define an ugly person.  

There is one more name: Bioeris.

Er in it could be the Turkic word er meaning the man. 

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Thracian-names-with-Turk-Torq-Turc-etcetera

 

Torkosinies - a Thracian hero - Source: Researchgate 

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I am reading the book of Wilhelm Tomaschek - Die Alten Thraker nowadays.

I examine many words in this book and it is not easy to read it for me because almost every Thracian word sounds like Turkic words. I have already written about many of them in the last days here on this blog. You can read them if you want. 

But now back to our subject:

I saw the Thracian name Torkosinies in a work that I found be researchgate.net ( source Torkosinies ). 

(I spin always further, it is my worst habit). 

After I read this study I saw the name Dan Dana at the end and his work. He wrote an article about Thracian names, including those with TORC/TURC/TURK. 

I have sent him a mail and he answered:

And he sent me his article about the Thracian names that are including the "syllable" Torc, Turk, Torq, Turc, etc. After that I have found his study in www under Thracian names , too. You can read about them from the page 65 on. 

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WHAT WAS SO INTERESTING ANYWAY?

I used the Yandex translator, because i can not speak French. You can read it below.

He wrote:

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Shortly: There were people among the Thracians whose names began with the "syllable" Turk/Turc/Tork, etc. 

On a Roman diploma (from the year 114 AD) we can read 2 of them. Torquatus and Torcus. 

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As we can see here the Thracian "root" Torc/Turc/Torq, etc. was being used already in the year 114 CE. That means there were people whose names were beginning with Turk/Tork/Torq, etc. and they were of Thracian origin. The other scholars may think that this "syllable" has nothing to do with the Turks. I think it is not impossible.

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(If we had found names with the "syllable" Grig/Greg, etc. anywhere in Europe, we would have immediately said that they were of Greek origin. So why shouldn't we think that the names with the syllable "Turk" could be of Turkish origin?)

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Additionally we know already the Roman Gens Turcius and and we know many Roman personalities in those years (even earlier) with this name. I have already written about those people on this blog. Please read more 

Ancient Roman Gens Turcius

Notes on Gens Turcii

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Now I think I'm the first to establish a relationship between Thracian names beginning with Turc/Tork and the Türks.

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How did you find it?

Uzunbacak Adem 

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Want more Turks?

visit epigraphy sites below:

Turkutos

or Τορκουπαιβης under Türk-Bay

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Now the Turkish Translations for my Turkish readers:

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Thracian-Chimos-versus-Turkic-Kimiz

 

Kımız - Kymis - Mare Milk - Turkish alcoholic beverage

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In his book tells Wilhelm Tomaschek about a substance used to make love drink. The Thessalian women made a love drink for the their men. Its name is of Thracian origin.

Its name is χήμος (CHIMOS).

I couldn't find in www further information.

Modern day Greek word χῡμός • (khūmós) means simply the juice. 

It has etymological difficulties acc. to Wiktionary:

χῡμός • (khūmós) m (genitive χῡμοῦ); second declension

1. juice of plants
2. animal juices, humors synonym ▲

   Synonym: χυλός (khulós)

3. flavour, savour 

Animal Juices, humors (Körperflüssigkeiten auf Deutsch), etc.

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We find a derivation of that Greek word in Latin:

It means "the fluid of the Stomach". 

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I can not speak Greek but at the end I understand it like that:

χήμος is a kind juice, with a Thracian background and the women used it to make a love drink.

Love drink?

Yes. Love drink to animate the stressed men who should make love with the women?

It should have been an alcoholic drink. 

Or am I wrong?

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There is an other alcoholic beverage I know that is made of "the juice of animal". 

Turkic KIMIZ / KYMIS is an alcoholic beverage that is made of mare milk. It is still being drunk in Central Asia and modern Türkiye. 

I have written about it already on this blog!

Read here more:

KIMIZ - Mare Milk

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The name and the meaning of both drinks are very similar to each other.

Don't you think?

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Uzunbacak Adem 

Thracian-Kamolis-versus-Turkic-kam

 

Kamolis-χαμόλης-in-book-Wilhelm Tomaschek-die Alten Thraker

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KAMLI means in Turkish a place where you have a Kam (Kam=Shaman). 

Tomaschek gives many other examples that have this stem: Kama/Kamo/Komi/Komo

He proposes the Sanskrit and New Persian stems for that.

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It could also be Turkic KAM, meaning Shaman. 

There is also KAMU, meaning the all, together. 

Kama- means in some dialects (like Kazak) to besiege. 

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On our pic above (from the book die Alten Thraker / The Ancient Thracian by Wilhelm Tmoaschek) we could see all those 3 Turkic stems. 

A toponym KAMIDAVA could be KAMI-D-AVA = OBA (dwelling place) with a KAM. (Letter D could be -t/-d, the plural suffix in Old Turkic).

There is Veste (Castle) called KAMOULIAVA and Turkic it could be an OBA (dwelling place) where everybody live KAMU = all, together.

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We don't have to seek the Thracian words in Indo-European languages. Turkic/Turkish could be a good option, too.

I have already wrote about this stem.

Read here: Comosicus - A high priest of Thracians

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Uzunbacak Adem 

the-Cypriot-Syllabary-versus-Turkic-runes

Comparison-the Cypriot versus Turkic Runes - Türk Runlari ve Kıbrıs alfabesi

Deutsch

 Ich habe einen Vergleich für Dich vorbereitet.

Kyprische Schrift (11. Jh vor C ) versus Türkische Tamgas (7. Jh nach C).

Da sind 14 gleiche oder fast gleiche ‚Zeichen‘. (Es gibt mehr, die sich ähnlich sind). Wie kommt es zustande? Zufall?

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TÜRKÇE

Sizin için bir karşılaştırma hazırladım. 

Antik Kıbrıs Alfabesi (MÖ 11. yy) Türk Tamgalarına karşı (MS 7. yy)!

14 özdeş veya neredeyse aynı 'işaret' vardır. (Benzer olan daha çok var). 

 Nasıl olabilir? 

 Tesadüf mü?

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ENGLISH

I have prepared a comparison for you.

The Cypriot (11th–4th centuries BCE) versus Turkic Tamgas (7th C CE)!

There are 14 identical or nearly identical 'signs'. (There are more that are similar).

How is it possible?

Coincidence?

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The Cypriot and Turkic Alphabets below:

Cypriot Syllabary 

Turkic Runes - Türk Runlari - Türkische Runen

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Source for the signs: Wikipedia English

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Uzunbacak Adem