Saturday, June 18, 2022

Greek-Butter-Bouturos-Hungarian-Turo-Turkic-Torak


 1. Greek βούτυρον - Butter < τυρός (turós, “cheese”)

Wiktionary data about Greek Butter



Paulys RE words

Pauly says: " τυρός " must be a Turco-Tatar word sein

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2. Hungarian Túró = cheese < From a Turkic language



3.Herodot:Scythian&Butter(4:2)

Herodot and Scythians and their milk products 


4.Linguist Dybo about Tora-k in Altaic langs: the product and the word should be pastoral nomadic > Altaic. 

2. *Dorak 'cheese': see ESTYA VIII (in print). Traditionally it is unjustifiably identified with Krh.-Türk. tar 'butter-free churned cream', Yak. tar 'frozen yogurt', which also phonetically fits the Chuv. tora(x) 'yogurt' Fedotov 2, 253 and Mong. tarag, with SH tarah 'yogurt' (which then was borrowed from Mong. to Tuv. and Manchu). For this last dish is reconstructed the name PT *tar-aq 'type of sour milk', perhaps a common word with Mong., but also possibly a loanword into Mong. from the ancient Türkic. The base torak does not coincide with the *tar-aq neither phonetically nor semantically; records start with AbûH and Chag., Khalaj tuorāq, Turk. doraq, Tur. dial. torak and dorak; Chuv. tora, twara; Dan. Bulg. Loanword in Hungarian tura 'cheese', all meaning 'kind of cottage cheese, cheese'. See the discussion of etymologies in ESTYA 8, Doerf. 3, № 1195, VEWT 490. This base may be a borrowing from Middle Iran. *Tura-ka, compare Av. türi- 'curded milk', which has IE etymology (see Ab. 3, 319; of Iranian forms also compare Saka (Hotan oasis?) (doubtful) ttüra 'cheese' Bailey 132, see also 124 tav- 'to go sour' Osset. turae'fatty soup. "(However, the second Türkic base can also be Iranism, compare Av. tayuri- 'kind of bread' Barth. 647, Zoroaster, Pahlavi *ter, but a semantic similarity is much worse, documentation is worse). All Iranian traces are Northern Eastern Iranian. The borrowing would take place before the global Türkic voicing. (A little sanity check would not hurt. All "Northern Eastern Iranians" were either intermingled or immediately adjacent to the steppes, interfacing many, but not all Türkic tribes. Philologically, all of the Türkic tribes have that word for a product made of a soured milk, but only a tiny sampling of Indo-Europeans have it, and among Iranian languages it appears only at a late Middle Iranian. The source of the product also must not be ignored. Nomads carried milk in bags made from animal intestines, the final product depended on what milk and what intestines were used, and the particular microflora of different animals. That variety required extensive location specific linguistic nomenclature, the buttermilk soured in the camel guts was different from that soured in the goat guts even if the starting milk was from the horse milk. The agriculturists had little access to that linguistic palette, and were borrowing only of a pidgin type terms, generic in nature. The philological obstacle is that most of the nomadic technology and associated vocabulary is either lost or not properly documented. The idea that pastoral nomads who live on milk products would need to borrow a milk product word from the agriculturists, and not the other way around, is somewhat funny. Where we do have a documented source, it is from the nomads to the sedentarists: Herodotus reported that the IE Greeks did not have cheese, and learned it from the Scythians, with appropriate source name ascending to Tyran. Not from the Persians, whom they intimately knew, and learned a few things from, but from the Tyran Scythians)

228 These dates are given per: Klyashtorny S.G. Hun state in the east./ /History of the Ancient World. Decline of ancient societies. Moscow, 1989; Kryukov M.V., Perelomov L.S., Sofronov M.V., Cheboksarov N.N. Ancient Chinese in the era of centralized empires. Moscow, 1983, Chapter 2: The ancient Chinese and their neighbors: racial and ethnic characteristics, pp. 56-104. But the parallel proposed there Mong. cinoo 'calf' does not exist: it is a 'wolf'.
772

Note that these both loans belong to the area of dairy farming and cattle husbandry, which seems quite natural for the early Türkic-East-Iranian contacts (cf., for example, main semantic fields that included Iranian loans into the Finno-Ugric languages) (These Türkic-East Iranian contacts must have been before the 12th c. BC, i.e. before the East Iranians ever existed, since the first Jungs/Hunyi/Xunyu/Xianxun that reached Shang were already fully formed nomadic pastoralists that had nothing to learn about milk products from the agricultural people who are even now noted for their lactose intolerance, which distinguishes the Melanoids and Polynesians, Indo-Iranians, and Chinese, see map on Wikipedia).


Source: Dybo about Butter


You see above the variants of Altaic/Turkic Tora-k/Dora-k in many Altaic langs and evidences!

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Again a Scythian Turkic word in Ancient Greek Language.

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**********UPDATE: 08.07.2023************

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A linguistics professor tweeted about this word, too 

Linear B (ca. 3400 years ago) had this word, too.

Tura/Dorak etc. in various Turkic languages. The cheese called Tu-ro was called Tu-ro in Mycenaean Greek. (Greek: Turos)
thanks this Professor I learned that too.


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A nice parallel, isn't it?

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Uzunbacak Adem

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