Wednesday, May 28, 2025

Scythian-king-Saulios-his-family-and-their-Türkic-names

 

Scythian mounted archer, Etruscan art, early 5th century BC.(pic: wiki)

(Nice pic anyway, a Scythian above with his bashlyk a la Turca)

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Now to our issue: SAULIOS AND HIS FAMILY


1) There was a Scythian king with the name Saulios (Σαύλιος) in the 6th century BC.

His name is interesting. Sauli-os could easily be the Türkish sawlı/savlı meaning verbal, assertive, spokesperson from sav meaning word, news and suffix +lı meaning "with"; in broader terms maybe "the envoy". 

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2) His father's name is also interesting: Gnuros. 

Gnur-os (+os as Greek suffix for male names like above by Sauli-os) matches with the Türkish word konur/koŋur meaning dark brown.

He was himself was maybe brown-tanned or his horse.

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3)His son's name is very interesting as well.

 Idanthyrsus (Ἰδάνθυρσος). The very old Türkish verb ıd- means to send, to let free and suffix +an has the function to make a maker of that verb before. That means "ıdan" means he who sends/lets free. The penultimate part of the name +tır is a suffix that derives transitive verbs from intransitive verbs and causative verbs from transitive verbs.

 > Idantır could mean "s/he who lets (the slaves) free". Or maybe he was himself was a slave and now he is free. 

Sincerely I have no explanation for the last syllable "σος" but it could be the suffix +çI that produces words in the sense of profession and habit (the last +s should be Greek suffix). 

Idanthyrsus could be a man who often freed the slaves. 

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4) Anacharsis, the brother of Saulis. One of the Seven Sages of Greece. His name "Anacharsis" is maybe Greek that is why it doesn't play a role in my blog. But his nationality is very interesting. Greeks described Scythians always as primitive and anti-cultural people but we see here in that example that the Greeks could learn something from those "barbarian" peoples. 

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TÜRKÇE:

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SAULIOS VE AİLESİ


1) MÖ 6. yüzyılda Saulios (Σαύλιος) adında bir İskit kralı varmış.

Adı ilginç. Sauli-os, Türkçede sözlü, sözcü anlamına gelen sawlı/savlı olabilir; sav, söz ve haber ve ardından "ile" anlamına gelen +lı ekinden oluşmuş; daha geniş anlamda belki de "elçi".

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2) Babasının adı da ilginç: Gnuros.

Gnur-os (Yukarıdaki Sauli-os'taki gibi, +os Yunanca erkek adların arkasına gelen ek) Türkçede koyu kahverengi anlamına gelen konur/koŋur kelimesiyle uyuşuyor.

Kendisi belki de kahverengi tenliydi ya da atı.

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3) Oğlunun adı da çok ilginç.

Idanthyrsus (Ἰδάνθυρσος). Çok eski Türkçe fiil ıd- göndermek, sevk etmek, serbest bırakmak anlamına gelir ve +an eki önceki eylemden ad yapar (yapıcısı). Yani "ıdan" gönderen/serbest bırakan anlamına gelir. İsmin sondan bir önceki kısmı olan +tır eki, geçişsiz  eylemlerden geçişli, geçişlilerden ettirgen eylem türetir.

> Idantır "köleleri serbest bırakan/bıraktıran kişi" anlamına gelebilir. Ya da belki kendisi köleydi ve sonra özgür oldu.

İçtenlikle söylemem gerekirse, son hece "σος" için bir açıklamam yok ama meslek ve alışkanlık anlamında kelimeler üreten +çI eki olabilir (son +s Yunanca ek olmalıdır).

Idanthyrsus köleleri sık sık serbest bırakan bir adam olabilir.

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4) Saulis'in kardeşi Anacharsis. Yunanistan'ın Yedi Bilgesi'nden biri. Adı "Anacharsis" belki de Yunancadır, bu yüzden blogumda bir rolü yoktur. Ancak milliyeti çok ilginçtir. Yunanlılar İskitleri her zaman ilkel ve kültür karşıtı insanlar olarak tanımlamışlardır, ancak burada bu örnekte Yunanlıların "barbar" halklardan bir şeyler öğrenebileceğini görüyoruz.

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Uzunbacak Adem

Tuesday, May 27, 2025

Sabucia-gens-etymology-Turkic-Sabik-Sabuk

 


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Wikipedia says:

"The gens Sabucia was a minor plebeian family at ancient Rome. Members of this gens are first mentioned in imperial times. The most illustrious of the family was Gaius Sabucius Major Caecilianus, who obtained the consulship in AD 186. Other Sabucii are known from inscriptions.[1][2]"

and continues:

"The historian Anthony Birley indicates that the Sabucii were of Etruscan origin.[2]"

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This family name Sabucia corresponds with Türkic sap- (to stick, to stab) or seb- (to love).

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Just a moment, only this similarity should explain the origin

of this name?

No! Of course no!

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There were very prominent men in the Türk history like

Sabuktigin (Sebük Tigin, Sabuktagin, Sabuktakin) a Türk king, was the founder of the Ghaznavid dynasty, and amir of Ghazna from 977 to 997. Sabuktigin was a Turkic slave who was bought by Alp-Tegin, the commander of the royal guard of the Samanid dynasty. His Türkic name was Sebük Tegin, meaning "beloved prince" (wikipedia). 

Sabuk was probably the form how not-Türks heard it. 

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Sabık Basar is a very old name that is attested in very old Türkic inscriptions. 

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These two examples could explain the etymology of that Roman gentes. 

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There are many more Roman family name with a possible Türkic

origin like:

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Roman-Gentes-Turullius-Turkic-Hungarian-Turul

Roman-Gens-Ogulnii-Turkic-Ogul-Oglin

Gens-Hortensii-Ortalu-Turkic-Orta-Otra-Ortanca

Roman-Gentes-Thorania-Turrania-Turcia

location-of-Domus-Turcii-Turk-Evi-Roma

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Uzunbacak Adem 


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Sources for Sabucia/Sabuk:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Sabucius

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabuktigin

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seb%C3%BCktigin

https://dergipark.org.tr/en/download/article-file/1911073

https://www.tdadergi.com/arsiv/220_Arastirma.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabucia_gens


Turkish-proposals-to-the-names-in-Paulys-Realencyclopedia-Letter-P

 

Paulys Realencyclopädie der classischen Altertumswissenschaft



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Pauly's Realencyclopädie der classischen Altertumswissenschaft

Letter O

Findings in May 2025

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I have looked through Türkish window at the names that I have read in the Pauly's Realencyclopädie der classischen Altertumswissenschaft

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Uzunbacak Adem


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Pauly Word

Info

Türkic Word

Info

Extra Info

Pagyritai

a people about who we know either language or race

bakır: copper

baġır: relatives, dears

baġır: the  middle part of bow

Paian

a deity in Greek mythology

bay: rich, numerous; holy, God, true, reliable, honest

Bayanay: Yakutian name of a god

Linear B, is 𐀞𐀊𐀺𐀚pa-ja-wo-ne

Paiania

Attic demos of the Pandionian phyle on the eastern side of Hymettus

bay: rich, numerous; holy, God, true, reliable, honest

+an: plural suffix


Paizon

a eunuch and slave of Seian, after whose death he came into the possession of Sutorius Priscus at a high price, Plin. n. h. VII 129.

bay: true, reliable, honest

?>bayzın (tatar) rich, 

I am sure about how old this word could be (bayzın)

Pakyris

River in southern Scythia, only Plin. n. h. IV 84, otherwise called Hypakyris, with another name Karkinites.

bakır: copper

compatible with Türkic onomastics see Bakırçay >

see Bakırçay river in modern Türkiye (Turkish for “copper river”)

Pala

Spade, digging log, winnowing shovel

baltu/balto

axe


Palaimon 6x, Palaimonios 

male names, almost always son of …

bala, balapan

1 young animal, nestling, 2 child 3 a man's wife's younger sister 4 younger relative

Version balaban, balaman

Palakion

Castle of the Scythian king Skiluros

balık

city

~balak

Palakos

Son of the Scythian king Skiluros

bala: child

+k: diminutive suffix

that means Palakion and Palakos are not namely related. It is a nice coincidence that the name of the city Palakion is similar to your child’s title Palakos. 

Palaxos

one of the Curetes

bala: child

+k: diminutive suffix


Palike

a town on Sicily

balık

city


Paloi

a Scythian people

bal/pal

honey


Pamisos

many hydronyms in Ancient Greek 

su: water



Panyasos

a river acc. to Ptolemy

su: water



Panysos

A river flowing south of Odessos into the Black Sea

su: water



Paphara

a town in North-Syria

ara

place between


Paradeisos

Enclosure, enclosed park

bar-: to reach, to come

>bar-k: dwelling, residence


Parikanoi

names of two tribes

barkan

moving dune

The toponym Barkan ist a 100% compatible to Parikan

Paris (many)

male name 

pars

leopard


Parka (Πάρκα)

The settlement of the Iazyges Metanastae in Ptol. III 7, 2, in the Hungarian lowlands (location: 43° 30' – 47° 40'), cannot, however, be identified with present-day locations.

bark: house, home, household

<bar-: to reach to come

bār 'there is', barɨ 'belongings'

Patagium

Golden decorative stripe on the robe

bediz-: to ornate


see Porto-Altaic pédá: spot, ornament: Tung. *pede-; Mong. *beder; Turk. *bEdiŕ; Jpn. *pantara 


Patana

God's name(?) on an Oscan bronze tablet, female

ana

mother


Patara

 a Lycian town

pat-/bat- to sink

ara: place between


Pathissus

Name of the Tisza River

su: water



Peducaeus

ccasionally written Paeducaea or Peducea, was a plebeian family at ancient Rome.

bedük

big, great


Pelendova 

place in Dacia

bel: mountain pass

oba: dwelling place

belendi; Berendi: an old Türkic tribe

Peltai

a town in Phrygia (a plain)

bel: valley

tai: mountain

Beldağı is a toponym in modern Türkiye (in Amasya) Amasya was a city in Phrygia, too.

Περιέρβιδοι (var. Περιέρβειδοι)

people in northern Asian Sarmatia

beri: south 

yer: place

er: soldier. man

Permessos

River in Boeotia

su: water



Peuce 3x

Southernmost delta arm of the Danube, island of the Danube Delta, Peuke oros, mountain range north of the Carpathians

bük

corner, bend; obstacle, dam; thicket, dense bush


Peucetii

One of the Iapygian tribes of Lower Italy

bük

corner, bend; obstacle, dam; thicket, dense bush

+Vt: plural suffix

Φαράμβαρα

place in Media

ara

place between


Pharzanes

Sarmatian, King of the Bosporan Empire, mid-3rd century AD

barz/bars

leopard


Pharzoios

Scythian king, 1st century BC or AD

barz/bars

leopard


Phylake

Headwaters of the Sarantapotamos

bulak

spring, well

there are other Phylakes in the Encyclopedia. These could have the same meaning. (toponyms where springs were) There are many Bulak toponyms in modern Türkiye

Phylakos

name of many men

bulak

spring, well

Bulak as one of three tribes affiliated with the Karluks, an there was at least one Bulak in the history as a personal name, as a King of Golden Horde

Pinarius

member of Pinaria gens

bıŋar

well, spring

The origin of the Pinarii is related in two different traditions. The more famous of these held that a generation before the Trojan WarHercules came to Italy, where he was received by the families of the Potitiiand the Pinarii. He taught them a form of worship, and instructed them in the rites by which he was later honored; but due to the tardiness of the Pinarii to the sacrificial banquet, Hercules assigned them the subordinate position

Pinaros

River in Southeast Cilicia

bıŋar

spring well


Piriboridava

Place in Lower Moesia

oba

dwelling  place

ova: valley

Pisingara

According to Ptolemy, V 6, 20, a city in Lesser Armenia. Location unknown.

ara

place between

bising: our

Plagara

Name of an Ionian-Carian border town (Πλαγαρῆς) listed on the Attic tribute lists,

ara

place between

bulak? (spring ,well)

Planktai

Mighty, overhanging, heavily surfed cliffs near Homer

tai

mountain, hill







Etymology-of-the-Massagetae-and-Tomyris-a-try

  * The great Massagataean people, a confederation of steppe peoples, was a powerful kingdom that rose to power in the 8th C BCE.  Wiki says...