Trocmoi-and-Trokmenoi-and-Turkmen

 

STEPHANUS BYZANTIUS Von Byzanz, Margarethe Billerbeck, P YPSILON. P U

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We read in that book above on the page #346:

Margarethe Billerbeck translates it into German like:

207: Trokmer, galatischer Volksstamm. Genannt wurden sie aber auch Trokmener.

In English:

Trocmi, Galatian tribe. They were also called Trocmenians (original: Trokmenoi).

This tribe was "beaten in 189 BCE by the Roman consul Gnaeus Manlius Vulso at the battles of Mt. Olympus and Mt. Magaba" (English wiki).

That means, they were existing there at least since 2nd Century BC. 

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Now, if I write Trokmen-oi sounds like Turkmen, would it be false? 

By the way Turkmen/Türkmen means "the real Türk".

This information carries us to the point, where we can say that there were Türks in Anatolia 2400-2500 years ago.

Fullstop.

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Hey, don't start please with 

similar names but it is not possible

Türks exist since 6th Century AD.

etc. 

Please...

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Uzunbacak Adem 

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Link to book:

https://archive.org/details/STEPHANUSBYZANTIUSVonByzanzMargaretheBillerbeckPYPSILON.PU/mode/1up

Etymology-of-the-Sacae-Saka-Tribe

 

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Stephanus of Byzantium writes about the Scythian tribe of Sacae in his book: 

15 Σάκαι: ἔθνος. τοὺς Σκύθας οὕτω φασί, ἀπὸ τοῦ ὅπλου, ὅτι αὐτὸ εὕραντο. τὸ θηλυκὸν Σακίς.

Margarethe Billerbeck translates it like:

German: Volk. Die Skythen nennt man so nach dem grossen Schild (σάκος), weil sie ihn erfunden haben.

English: People. The Scythians are named after the large shield (σάκος), because they invented it.

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That means their name Saka comes from the big shield that they themselves invented. 

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Wiktionary says about "σάκος":

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Etymology is very uncertain.

Beekes says it is not Indo-European. 

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I say that it could be Türkic. The verb sak-/sakı- means 

aware, be aware or (to) protect. (It is still in use in modern Türkish as sakın-, meaning be wary of, be careful (not to),... etc.).

Of course a shield as a defensive weapon has the initial function of protection. That is why it is quite possible that he name Sacae/Saka of that tribe could be Türkish, if we accept what Stephanus of Byzantium says.

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Uzunbacak Adem 

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Links that I used for this short blog:

Proto-Turkic: *sạk(ɨ)-

Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology

Meaning: 1 aware 2 be aware, protect

Russian meaning: 1 осторожный, бдительный 2 быть осторожным, беречь(ся)

Karakhanid: saq 1, saqɨn- 2 (MK)

Turkish: sak, sax 1 (dial.), sakɨn- 2

Tatar: saq 1

Middle Turkic: saqɨn- 2 (Houts.) , saqin- 2 (Pav. C.)

Uzbek: sɔɣ 1 (dial.)

Sary-Yughur: saqa 1, saq-, saqɨ- 2

Turkmen: saq 1,2

Khakassian: sax 1, saɣɨ- 'to wait'

Oyrat: saqɨ- 2

Chuvash: sɨɣъ 'guard'

Tuva: sa'ɣɨ- 2

Kirghiz: saq 1

Noghai: saq 1

Bashkir: haq 1

Balkar: saq 1

Gagauz: saq 1, saqɨn- 2

Karaim: saqɨn- 2

Karakalpak: saq 1

Kumyk: saq 1

Comments: VEWT 395-6. Turk. > WMong. saɣ, Kalm. sag (KW 307).

< https://starlingdb.org/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=%2Fdata%2Falt%2Fturcet&first=1&off=&text_trk=sak&method_trk=substring&ic_trk=on&sort=proto

Other links:

https://archive.org/details/STEPHANUSBYZANTIUSVonByzanzMargaretheBillerbeckPYPSILON.PU/page/134/mode/1up

https://topostext.org/work/241 sakai

Etymology-of-the-Massagetae-and-Tomyris-a-try

 

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The great Massagataean people, a confederation of steppe peoples, was a powerful kingdom that rose to power in the 8th C BCE. 

Wiki says they were a part of the Scythian cultures. Their famous queen's name was Tomyris. 

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There are many tries that should prove the both names Massagetae and Tomyris were of Indo-European origin but none of them is convincing. Because there are too many far-fetched and forced proposals and none of them makes really sense. 

My proposal: The name Massagetae should have been Türkish. 

I take the name Basıq as starting point. We know already a Basıq who was in the army of the Huns and then of the Roman Empire. 

Wiki: Basich or Basikh (Greek: Βασίχ, fl. 395) was a Hun military commander who co-led an invasion of Persia in 395 AD together with Kursich. His name should be Türkic deriving from the possible Türkic words that we see below:

1) BARS-IQ: meaning the leopard like (or little leopard-UA). A name that is 100% compatible with Türkic onomastics. 

2)  Başık/Basık: the head/chieftain of a troop, a not high-ranked one. 

These were proposals of the leading scholars in this field. 

Wikis says: 

"Otto Maenchen-Helfen took the ending -ich for the Turkic diminutive -iq; he proposed that Basich came from basiq, meaning "little captain".[1] Omeljan Pritsak instead understood there to be a suffix -siġ, meaning "like something"; he derived Basich from Turkic *bars-siġ with loss of the -r- and degemination, giving a meaning "feline-like". "(link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basich)

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And

3) (this one is my proposal) Basık means also a night raid, from the verb bas-, meaning to raid, to win, to strike, to attack suddenly, to exterminate, etc.

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After those 3 proposals I can come to my point: I think, the name of that Scythian (Türkic) tribe come from the verb bas-. Massaget should have been BASIK-IT (b~m change is possible), meaning the "the night raiders", a troop (every tent was a troop in Steppe Confederations) that perfected the night raid. 

We don't know about their language, because we don't know any word of their language. We know only a couple of Massagetaen names. One of them is the name of their famous queen Tomuris (Τομυρις).

But now look at:

Proto Türkic *damor

means

1 vein, artery 2 root (1 жила, сосуд 2 корень): 

OTurk. tamar, tamɨr 1 (OUygh.); Karakh. tamur (MK, KB), tamar (MK-Oghuz) 1; Tur. damar 1; Gag. damar 1; Az. damar 1; Turkm. damar 1; Sal. tamɨr 1; MTurk. tamur 1, 2 (Sangl., Abush., MA); Uzb. tɔmir 1; Uygh. tomur, temir 1, 2; Krm. tamur 1, 2; Tat. tamɨr 2; Bashk. tamɨr 1, 2; Kirgh. tamɨr 2; Kaz. tamɨr 1, 2; KBalk. tamɨr 1, 2; KKalp. tamɨr 1, 2; Kum. tamur 1, 2; Nogh. tamɨr 1, 2; SUygh. tamɨr 1; Khak. tamɨr 1, 2; Oyr. tamɨr 1, 2; Tv. damɨr 1; Tof. damɨr 1; Chuv. tɨmar 1, 2; Yak. tɨmɨr 1; Dolg. tɨmɨr 1.

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You can read the dialectical variations of the Proto-Türkic word *damor. I would say, this Türkic word is the root of that Türkic queen. 

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As we can see the name of the tribe and its queen are of Türkic origin and we can conclude that (at least) the Elite was Turkish.

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More information about that queen's name you can find here:

https://uzunbacakadem.blogspot.com/2025/02/germanic-chieftain-catumerus-actumerus.html

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Uzunbacak Adem

Pre-Greek-on-Crete-and-its-parallels-to-Turkic

 

Pre-Greek Speech on Crete. Evidence for pre-greek speech on Crete from Greek alphabetic sources

by

 

Brown, R. A.

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Today I have finished the work with searching the book above for the Türkic word.

And I am not unsuccessful.

Here are my findings:

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Cretan place name	info	Türkic word	info	other info
Allaria	a city whose cite is unknown	alar-	be dazzled	< al-, ala-
Aptara	a city to the south of Kolpos Soudas	apa: mother/father	+t: Plural suffix	ara: a place between. Mr. Brown notices that the similar names Patara, Pttara and Aptara are all Pre-Greek.
Araden	a city in the south	ara	a place in between	arıt-: to clean, ARITAN?
Batheia	Place near Kadonia	bat-	to dive, to enter, to go down	Brown says „derived from βαθυς“ meaning profound, deep
Diktunnaion	from the name of Cretan goddess DIKTUNNA	tik-/dik: 1 to plant vertically 2 vertical	ana: mother
iardanos	a river whose identification is unknown	yar	a steep slope on the edge of a river, a cliff	OR yar ~ yer?; yartan: part, half, piece, portion
Inachorion	a town	inak	a Türkic name / title that we know since 9th C. Inak et-Türki A Khazarian Türk slave by the Abbasid Arabs (enslaved in ca. 815)	Inachos is the river of the valley
Kantanos	a city in the south	kantan	from where	OR kan-: to get sated. > kantur-: to let somebody be sated (Suya kanmak is modern Türkic and means to drink enough)
Kara	a village near Kantanos	kara	black; holy; great	etymology
Koite	an island	koytu/kuytu	a deserted, quiet, inconspicuous place	kud-: to pour, to pour our (water) > Kudug: well
Korion	a village near the Lake Koresia	korıġ	reserve, protected area	<korı- to protect
Kuthera	an island of Crete	kut: luck, divine mercy, happiness	er: men	or kut-yer (place); Brown notices: The name is cognate with Kutheros, a deme in Attika.
Korukos	name of peninsular on west of the Gulf of Kisamos	kurug-luk: bow-case, quiver		OR <korı- to protect. Brown notices Greek κώρυκος = leather sack, punch-bag and doesn’t show its similarity to Türkic Kurug-luk
Lipara	name of place near Κυδωνία,	ara	a place in between
Lisos (also Lissa, Lissos)	city and harbor on south coast near the modern village of Aikyrkós.	ılı- to get warm	su: water	il: state; home
Minoa	Minoan	bing/ming	thousand
Oreia	name of a region	orı	valley, pit, sinkhole	OR or: a higher place
Pergamon	a small city to the west of Κυδωνία, The name is of pre-Greek origin, cf. Πέργαμον in Mysia; in Epeiros; and Πέργαµος/Πέργαµον, the citadel of Troy. It is derived from the root purg-~perg- (stronghold)	berk	mighty, strong, sturdy, solid (these are parallel to „stronghold“.	Chuvash: parga
Polichna	icty south of Κυδωνία	bölük: divided; a art (of something)		see Wallach (probably from Turkic Bölük)
Tarra	city on the south coast near the modern village of Ayia Rouméli.	tarıġ	all kinds of crops, grains	iThe name is found also in Lydia
Khersonesos	a locality named by Ptolemaios	karşı: opposite	su: water
Aksos Αξος	city on the northern foothills of Psilorítis	Aksu	White water
Arkesion	name given to the cave of Zeus on Mount Ida	arka	back, backing
Ida	a mountain	daw/dau/tau	mountain	idi: master, owner
Aetoa αητώα	he name of the larger of two islands south of Ψυχήιον, and west of Μάταλα	ay: moon	? toġ-: to rise (of moon/sun)
Soulia, Σουλία; Sulia	Harbour town of Σύβριτα, on the site of the modern Ayla Galini.	su/suw/sub: water	+lV: suffix with the meaning „with“	Suwlag: in Uyghur we see theis wird meaning trough (German Pferdetränke)…. Brown notices further: The name is not Greek. Fick compares the name to Συλοσών in Samos, Σύλλειον in Pamphylia, and the Συλίονες in Illyria
Subrita Σύβριτα (The name is also recorded as: Σούβριτα, Σύβριτος, Σούβριτος, Σίβρυτος, Σέβυρτος.)	city southwest of ᾿Ελεύϑερνα, near the modern village of Thrönos	su/suw/sub: water
᾿Αμνισός  Amnisos	river, now called the Karterós, and also small harbour town at its mouth	su/suw/sub: water
Axápva Acharna	village, now known as Arkhánes, on the eastern foothills of mount Juktas	ak-: to flow	ak- as a verb could be used in military jargon meaning sth like sneak attack	Brown admits: For the naming of a place from a fish name, cf. Astale  in West-Central Crete. Admittedly it seems a little strange in the case of  Acharya as the village was some way inland. One is reminded also of the Attic deme.
Γόρτυν/Γόρτυς Gortun	city in central Crete, at a later date the administrative centre of the Roman province of Crete.	kur-:	to erect (a building), to establish	like in Kurgan OR KORI-: to protect
*’Epov Eron	a name, possibly in the Γόρτυν area	er: soldier, man	on: 10	known only from its ethnicon Ερώνιοι
Καρνησσόπολις Karnessopolis / Karnassos	according to Hesykhios another name for Λύττος	su: water
κεσχορα	name of an area near Γόρτυν.	or-: a higher place	OR ara: place in between
Κνωσός/Κνωσσός	a famous city on Crete	su: water		the Non-Greek suffix +ινθος could be Turkic, too, meaning „there“ like -sso, meaning water, that we see by many rivers. ………But Furnée suggests rather a connexion European origin. with Nesite tapar- ‘to reign, rule', Hattic and Palaic tabáinas; Nesite labarna- ‘ruler, sovereign' and that λαβύρινδος is to be understood as "King's house' rather 161 than 'House of the Double-Axe———- TAPAR could mean the worshipper and +suffix ntha could mean „there where the people worship“
Πύρανϑος Puranthos	small city in the area of Γόρτυν	burçak: bean	OR bur-: to smell nicely, +anta > Buranta: where it smells nicely	For the first elements of this name, cf. πυρος -oπυρος, a word of pre-Greek origin meaning "wheat"
Τύλισος	city near the modern village of Tylisos,which still preserves the ancient name.	tolu: full	tolı: hail	su: wasser
καλολακκα Kalolakka	Locality named in treaties	kalı	place to stay
Barse	meaning unknown	bars	leopard
Akel-	found in river names	Akeles, Acheles, Acheloos	akığ/akığlı	flowing, current/that that is flowing
Berekunthos Βερέκυνδος	meaning unknown	berk	strong
δίβαν/δίφαν diban/diphan	snake			there are 3 Türkish words for snake YILAn, SARGAN; EVREN and all end with +en/+an (maybe Dragon, too?)
ὄδρυν	Mountain in Thessaly	otru	middle, front, against	possibly also occurs in Mycenaean o-du-ru-we =«—pre-Greek *odru--*othru-.)
Etymology	Kelime Kökeni	Köken	Etymologie

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(A small note: Pre-Greek on Crete was not Semitic and not Indo-European. What is left on this area? Right: Türkic).

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Uzunbacak Adem 

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Link for the book: https://archive.org/details/pre-greek_speech_on_crete/mode/1up?q=barse